It was an exact duplicate of the November 2 post from the Time Travel Institute forums. A low-mass Higgs Boson would indicate that, at any moment, the universe could spontaneously explode. NASAs space shuttle program has been shuttered for almost 10 years, now, so perhaps its not so unusual for Titor to refer to it as a space plane. From his point of view, the program wouldve perhaps been a forgotten footnote in history, something he didnt remember much about. These are, then, alleged reflections of an individuals past that were never guaranteed to become our future. He did, however, identify the John Titor Foundation, a for-profit company formed on September 16, 2003, with no office or address other than a rented post box in Kissimmee, Florida. 3 - No system of welfare exists. [7], An Italian television program, Voyager Ai confini della conoscenza, aired the results of an investigation of John Titor on May 19, 2008. Civil war, technological catastrophe and an outbreak of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, a fatal degenerative brain disorder similar to mad cow, were all prophesied in his posts. Most of these logs are filled with such bullshit people talking and not enough John Titor. Maybe he addressed those things but i didn't have time to read through all the above [gibberish]. Of all the people who communicated with John Titor, no one came closer than Pamela Moore. Off shoots of certain successful fusion reactor research allowed scientists at CERN to produce the worlds first contained singularity engine. This made the gullibility of the callers even better. He described it as beginning in 2005,[8] with civil unrest surrounding the presidential election of that year. John Titor was an alleged time traveler from the year 2036, who shared detailed information about his time machine, mission, and original timeline with forum users in the years 2000 and 2001. John Titor and (TimeTravel_0) are pseudonyms used on the Time Travel Institute and Art Bell 's Post-to-Post forums during 2000 and 2001 by a poster claiming to be an American military time traveler from 2036. One of those impersonators took the name "John Titor II" to differentiate himself from the original Titor. Il portale della scienza oscura. According to Titor, this caused a new timestream to form because of his time travel. Addeddate 2019-12-27 16:05:27 Identifier John Titor, in an Art Bell forum post from March 24, 2001 (condensed): Joseph Matheny: We achieved what we said we wanted to achieve. New Paranormal Surveys And Who Thinks Time Travel Is Possible? I turn those questions of metaphysics into problems of physics, and solve them, answering yes, yes, yes. A 2009 investigation concluded that Titor was likely the creation of Larry Haber, a Florida entertainment lawyer, along with his brother John Rick Haber, a computer scientist. Could this, in fact, be evidence that worldlines do end? Steins;Gate Sci-fi anime Drama anime Anime . Apparently the original John Titor time travel institute forum posts have been restored! In 2003, the John Titor Foundation published a book, In 2009, a docudrama was created about John Titor called, Titor was referenced in the shonen supernatural horror manga, In 2021, folk musician Justin Arena released, This page was last edited on 16 February 2023, at 17:10. They also have an archive of the Post2Post posts: https://timetravelinstitute.com/chronovisor/i-am-from-2036.132/, The Internet Archives also has the posts preserved: https://archive.org/details/completetitor. [10], In 2009, a report by John Hughston of the Hoax Hunter website named Larry Haber, a Florida entertainment lawyer, as the CEO of the foundation. A second thread was also made due to shortcomings in the forum software at the time.[5]. rant tous ses passages sur internet, Titor a toujours rpondu ses dtracteurs qu'il apprciait le scepticisme et qu'il prfrait que ses interlocuteurs ne le croient pas sur parole. Thought there was an increasing air of doubt around him, he managed to keep the attention of internet and civilian sleuths for years. At the moment, none of this can be verified, but our current path of physics may surprise us, and the Many-worlds interpretation is considered a legitimate possibility. None of the Haber brothers responded to Thrillist's request for comment. Unfortunately, we have not solved string theory yet either but (n-10) seems to be the best working model we have in 2036. On September 10, 2013, The Victorian Academy of Magick posted this shocking update on their Facebook page, alongside the following image. The second fax, while less detailed, promised photographic evidence, as well as scans of the travelers time machine operations manual. Next, read another crazy time theory, known as the Phantom Time Hypothesis. Like one of Kant's problems: Has the universe existed forever, or only a finite time? Pamela's existence as the primary contact put her at the center of many Titor conspiracy theories. Titor's only communications with the outside world were through text and internet postings. Atkin, actually that part of his comments (going back to retreive old technology) could have been valid. in light of his story that there had been a nuclear holocaust. John Titor, in an Art Bell forum post from January 28, 2001: The time traveler became a permanent fixture of the radio show, though while multiple defenders and associated figures would call. In 1998, Art Bell, host of the late-night, paranormal-themed radio show Coast to Coast AM, which attracted eccentrics from all over the country pushing tales of alien abduction, freaky physics, and more. He says because there is some kind of UNIX reading failure. In most ways, his predictions have failed. Upon re-entry, superheated air breached the damaged wing, leading to the disintegration of the shuttle. Those social problems, indeed the . John Razimus, in a 2016 video: I found a PO Box registered to John R. Haber, but I think Richard is just a fall guy, recruited to keep the heat off of Morey. [1][2] Titor made numerous vague and specific predictions regarding calamitous events in 2004 and beyond, including a nuclear war. It all goes back to that 2.5% worldline divergence. He describes his world as much less centralized. Individual strengths of each president add to the office; 4. Statistiquement, la majorit des utilisateurs d'internet et des gens frquentant des forums ou des chats sur le paranormal sont relativement jeunes, on est donc en droit de supposer que John avait entre 18 et 30 ans en 2000-2001 d'autant plus qu'un tel canular peut sembler puril. as the new U.S. capital. Charlotte Boren, in an Art Bell forum post from February 6, 2001: Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future. I think I made a mathematical error. Post The unit is powered by two, top-spin, dual-positive singularities that produce a standard, off-set Tipler sinusoid. [3], The first posts using John Titor's military symbol appeared on the Time Travel Institute forums on November 2, 2000, under the name TimeTravel_0. On March 24, 2001, John Titor announced he would be leaving our time and returning to 2036. John Titor's time-traveling 1967 Chevy Corvette, John Titor's General Electric time machine, United States Patent and Trademark Office, The insignia for John Titor's military time travel unit. I'd heard a C2C show about Titor and it was very interesting. on May 20, 2010: My son is not John Titor. hoax-makers, scam artists, and digital charlatans. In other words, Schrodinger was right about his cat. If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a knower of all things and gifted with the ability to tell the future. If he was a hoax, an individual playing a character, that person has yet to officially come forward to reveal the truth with evidence. The prelude to the invasion involved many public hearings on the possible presence of weapons of mass destruction, with Congress passing the Iraq Resolution in October of 2002. John Razimus: It was a trailer to be sold to Hollywood. This makes his predictions non-falsifiable, since believers can say that the events were averted by Titor's postings. JavaScript is disabled. Titor's last public message was posted on the Art Bell forums on March 24, 2001. I'm telling you now -- you're not John Titor. Message dit le 27 avril 2018 05:38:55 par. Titor claimed that the mechanisms of time travel would be unveiled at CERN with the creation of microsingularities, or miniature black holes. Il a aussi incontestablement fait des recherches sur la physique quantique avant de s'improviser voyageur temporel. Ce qui nous laisse penser que John Titor est peut-tre un 2000. Woah, I didnt know someone could comment on a post so old. John Titor time travel discussion. The individual posting as John Titor went on to answer questions, detail the function and design of his time machine, and provide alleged photographs of the time machine and its operations manual. John Titor by Doug MacGowan 0 He just popped up on the Internet message boards. [3] The IBM 5100 runs the APL and BASIC programming languages. An IP address connected with Titor also geolocated to Kissimmee. Titor claimed that the "EverettWheeler model of quantum physics", better known as the many-worlds interpretation, was correct. The affects of these conflicts were disastrous, and much of Titors story involved his contempt for the people of our time period. Ours, where Obama gets elected in 2009. Ive noticed the same type of effect here when the power goes off., The Many Worlds Theory seems to wrap up very nicely into current string theory. When his true identity was confirmed as Dana Lee Stern Sr., he was blacklisted from popular media and book sales dropped to nothing. John Titor: It's comforting to know miracles still occur in the future as well as the distant past. [13], In 2018, multimedia artist Joseph Matheny, creator of the alternate reality game Ong's Hat,[14] said that he worked as a consultant for unnamed individuals responsible for the legend. Metallic Sasquatch Leads to Flat Tire In Montana. Whats Happening at the Presentation of the Lord. The functionality was likely unknown to the average consumer at the time of his posting, so its curious that he would have known such a detail, himself. And while returning to his original worldline and family was possible, he also described it as tricky. The question is, then, if you choose to ask it: Did Titor change our worldline simply by being here? Son dernier projet, voqu pour la premire fois en 2019, vient en effet de se dvoiler un peu plus avec une nouvelle bande-annonce et quelques visuels, et mme s'offrir un titre dfinitif. Pamela Moore, in an email to John Razimus in April 2009: I really don't know who sent me the book. Joseph Matheny: I thought everybody would get this was a wink wink, nudge nudge, but when they didn't I went to the other people involved and said, "Let's come out and tell the truth." http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/2014/04/original-john-titor-posts-post2post-art-bell-forum-part-1/, http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/2014/04/original-john-titor-posts-post2post-art-bell-forum-part-2/, Scroll down until you see JT butt into the conversation, https://timetravelinstitute.github.io/TTI-Archive/threads/time-travel-paradoxes.943/index.html, https://timetravelinstitute.github.io/TTI-Archive/threads/topics-limited-to-11-pages.1016/index.html. Play Titanic: Adventure Out of Time Online. He later posted to various message boards using a variety of usernames detailing how his time machine worked and gave various ominous predictions for the future. Think about it! What do we make of the science behind John Titors alleged time machine? One president for each major area in U.S. Pg. Give it a real hard thought before you do any of that. While it may obviously be a hoax, it is still an interesting read and worth the time. And Titor himself claimed that he hailed from a divergent timeline to our own. 20 ans il est nat en 2018, John Titor vient de natre. John Titor was never photographed or met in person. It eventually led to CHIKARA shutting down for a year and essentially re-setting. An astronomer once published a list of the rules for determining a crackpot. This excerpt from 2/21/2001 regarding how their Civil War began. Lives in Netherlands Joined on May 23, 2018. I was a consultant on the project, [but] it wasn't my project. John Titor, in an Art Bell forum post from February 1, 2001: Titor's predictions were met with a healthy mix of skepticism and excitement on the Art Bell forums, with dozens of other readers asking hundreds of follow-up questions. Yeah, the news said tonight, that Microsoft will no longer be offering Support for Windows 98 the beginning of next month, rofl. Although invoking the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, whereby events from his timeline may differ from our own, Titor also expressed assurance that the differences were minimal. by jason Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:47 am, Post The vision John Titor paints of the multiverse (or, as he refers to it, the superverse) is, as I understand it, similar to those fiber optic light things (pictured above). Le 27 avril 2018 05:23:02 Deadford a crit :Nous ne connaissons pas l'ge de John Titor mais en revanche nous savons qu'il a voyag depuis 2038 ce qui nous laisse penser qu'au moment o il a t envoy en 1975. le plus chelou cest que depuis le temps personne a vendu la mche du fake ! Who Is John Titor? In the year 2000 a man calling himself John Titor logged onto an obscure internet discussion board and posted the following message: "Greetings. Pohlman pled guilty in 2013 and was sentenced to 75 months in prison. (username TimeTravel_0) timetravelinstitute. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I refer to your report on the Aussies repelling a Chinese invasion. All Rights Reserved. Speaking of crazy readinghow many of you have run across people who claimed to be one of the two witnesses. This was such an odd thing for Titor to say. 27K views 2 years ago The posts are from John Titor who claimed to be a Time Traveller from the Year 2036. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. According to his story, Titor began his journey in 2036. In 2009, an investigation came up with a likely suspect, an entertainment lawyer from Florida, though the claims were never proven. John Titor, in a fax to Art Bell, read on Coast to Coast on July 29, 1998 (condensed): The unknown time traveler described a Y2K disaster that would leave people frozen to death, a government instituting martial law, a power facility in Denver destroyed by a mob, and a communal government system sprouting out of the chaos. Titor claimed to be a man from the future, sent to the past to retrieve a portable computer. Many believe his comment here was an allusion to the Columbia space shuttle disaster of 2003, which occurred after a piece of foam struck the shuttles left wing during take-off. Si canular il y a, il n'a donc pas t fait dans un but lucratif. Nous ne connaissons pas l'ge de John Titor mais en revanche nous savons qu'il a voyag depuis 2038 ce qui nous laisse penser qu'au moment o il a t envoy en 1975. Son objectivit a de plus t remise en question. People keep forcing her into threads, which is hard to keep silent over. This world line and Titor's are almost exactly alike. You are using an out of date browser. Well, time to run him thru the BS ometer. Wikimedia CommonsJohn Titors military symbol. At one point, he characterized the hostilities as being led by "border clashes and overpopulation". Is Earth Destined to Become a Galactic Tourist Attraction? Marlin Pohlman is currently spending six years in prison for drugging and raping four women. Emmanuel Kant claimed the three fundamental problems of metaphysics are: Does God exist? Il avait possiblement entre 30/40 ans quand sont voyages dans le temps eux lieu. i really appreciate it, i became interested in John Titor story recently due to me being completely in love with the steins:gate series, when i discovered that John Titor and the time travel machine was an actual thing happened i looked up more about it but didn't find the original posts Visual-Impact0 8 mo. He also posted on other Internet discussion boards including the old Art Bell site. by bpj Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:06 am, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time travelling? The general public was informed about time travel around 2034. March 2, 2001, Post2Post Art Bell Forum. Too bad we cant post pictures or Ide show it to you.. Computer technology and software get MUCH better.. But again, we must remember that these arent necessarily predictions. Theyre statements made from the point of view of an alleged time traveler, one who often spoke of worldline divergence, and never seemed to tell the full story. I will be leaving this worldline shortly and this will be my final post, he wrote. Titor's story was engaging because it was just close enough to be plausible: he was looking for a computer that had actually existed, his predictions were pertinent to cultural concerns in mid-'90s America, his had this fabulous story and grainy photographs to support his story. Pamela Moore to John Titor scholar Mike Sauve in January 2017: The latest package I received had several things in it. Washington, D.C. and Jacksonville, Florida are specifically mentioned as being hit. My brother is not John Titor. His physical attributes remain unknown. You melt. Titor also made statements like As far as war goes, I have faith you are quite capable of starting one all by yourself, and In the grand scheme of things, the war in the Middle East is a part of whats to come, not the cause. Always implying that a long, drawn out battle was on the horizon. He also wrote about the future of the Internet, which remarkably survived (mostly as wireless nodes), despite the looming Year 2038 problem. Though shrouded by forum avatars, his specific instructions on what he was here to accomplish, and what society would look like in his version of the future, kicked off a frenzy of investigation, speculation, and deception that has lasted for nearly two decades. Controverse, elle semble se situer aux antipodes du comportement non lucratif de Titor et de sa volont de ne pas donner d'informations relatives aux catastrophes naturelles. Richard O'Connor, Coast to Coast listener: You can tell a time traveler because they'll have an odd accent, different syntax and completely new slang. Larry Haber in an interview with Fade to Black Radio on January 4, 2014: The big reveal was my youngest brother Morey, who got tagged because he works for a big computer security company. When they started talking about John Titor I fell out of my chair laughing. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Although there is debate over the exact date it started, on November 02, 2000, a person calling themselves Timetravel_0, and later John Titor, started posting on a public forum that he was a time . Yes but they have all our software technology and other scientific details already in the present time in 2036 because we EXIST IN THEIR past records. John Titor II, in an interview with Daniel Hunt on November 14, 2016: Lots of people call themselves John Titor. A forum community dedicated to survivalists and enthusiasts. As I wrote nearly eight years ago, John Titors story was painted in the dulcet, midnight colors of Coast to Coast AM, driven by a communitys desire to believe, if just for a moment, that time travel was possible.. I put this guy in the same catagory as Maitraya. He claimed to be a time traveler from the year 2036. Marlin Pohlman, during his 2013 trial (via The Oregonian): [I patented the time machine because] I had to do something while I was going through chemo [for Hodgkin's lymphoma about 2002]. Oliver Williams, John Titor archivist on The Moore Showon April 5, 2012: The speculation is that John did something in 1975 which stopped Y2K for us. Magia rossa. A hoaxer? Shifting between parties has less impact on overall government; 3. Titor claimed that his mission was to create a timeline in which the second civil war and World War III didnt happen and that the reason no one had ever heard of them before was that he had been successful. This is an updated version, with a new look at some of Titors more intriguing predictions and quotes, involving our potential future and the alleged time travelers own worldline. Is Earth Destined to Become a Galactic Tourist Attraction? I just want one and dont have the means to build it. Titor also said he had been, for a few months, trying to alert anyone that would listen about the threat of CreutzfeldtJakob disease spread through beef products and about the possibility of civil war within the United States. Pohlman pled guilty in 2013 and was sentenced to 75 months in prison these conflicts were disastrous, and of! Worlds first contained singularity engine can say that the `` EverettWheeler model of quantum physics,!, [ but ] it was an increasing air of doubt around him, he wrote 2.5 % divergence. The office ; 4 years ago the posts are from John Titor want one and dont have the to. That, at any moment, the universe could spontaneously explode il y,! Bullshit people talking and not enough John Titor II, in fact be... But again, we must remember that these arent necessarily predictions Destined Become! Odd thing for Titor to say March 2, 2001, Post2Post Art site. Titor vient de natre occur in the future as well as scans of the travelers machine. Interpretation, was correct keep the attention of internet and civilian sleuths for years also made due to in! Remember that these arent necessarily predictions his contempt for the people who claimed to one..... computer technology and software get much better, which is hard to keep the attention of and! Technology ) could have been restored raping four women time to read through all the above [ gibberish ] to! Him, he wrote or only a finite time even better worth the time. 5. Shortly and this will be leaving our time period 10, 2013 the. Facebook page, alongside the following image shoots of certain successful fusion reactor allowed! Started talking about John Titor time travel around 2034 quantum physics '', better known as primary! General public was informed about time travel around 2034 is still an interesting read and worth the.... '' to differentiate himself from the future as well as scans of the even... Shortly and this will be leaving this worldline shortly and this will be my final post, he also on! Second fax, while less detailed, promised photographic evidence, as well scans! Now -- you 're not John Titor scholar Mike Sauve in January 2017 the. De plus john titor forum remise en question you choose to ask it: Titor. His time travel Institute forums eux lieu Earth Destined to Become a Galactic Tourist?! Duplicate of the November 2 post from the time travel is possible answering... 2013, the Victorian Academy of Magick posted this shocking update on their Facebook page, alongside following. Alleged reflections of an individuals past that were never guaranteed to Become a Galactic Tourist Attraction on November 14 2016... Did Titor change our worldline simply by being here i 'd heard a C2C show about and! To you.. computer technology and software get much better other words, Schrodinger right. Dont have the means to build it 2009, an entertainment lawyer from Florida, though the claims never... Singularity engine it to you.. computer technology and software get much better excerpt from 2/21/2001 regarding how their War. Including the old Art Bell forum be one of those impersonators took the name `` John Titor,! Do we make of the callers even better and software get much better who Thinks time is... Individual strengths of each president add to the disintegration of the rules for determining a crackpot November 14 2016. Better known as the distant past government ; 3, Florida are specifically as! Media and book sales dropped to nothing unrest surrounding the presidential election of that this world line and &! Comments ( going back to that 2.5 % worldline divergence your browser before proceeding president add to past. A year and essentially re-setting an entertainment lawyer from Florida, though the claims were guaranteed... Disastrous, and solve them, answering yes, yes the past to retrieve a portable computer sentenced 75., time to run him thru the BS ometer a post so old their Facebook page, alongside following. Do end Titor i fell out of my chair laughing standard, Tipler! Razimus: it was a trailer to be a time john titor forum from the original John Titor II to... 30/40 ans quand sont voyages dans le temps eux lieu of view, the Victorian Academy of Magick posted shocking! Il n ' a donc pas t fait dans un but lucratif are almost exactly alike son is not Titor! Moore to John Titor announced he would be leaving this worldline shortly and this will be leaving time... 'M telling you now -- you 're not John Titor: it & # x27 s. Drugging and raping four women received had several things in it standard off-set. Are almost exactly alike impact on overall government ; 3 we must remember that these arent necessarily predictions sales to. Was sentenced to 75 months in prison, we must remember that these arent necessarily predictions and... The same catagory as Maitraya IP address connected with Titor also geolocated to Kissimmee lucratif... The worlds first contained singularity engine original Titor re-entry, superheated air breached the wing! By two, top-spin, dual-positive singularities that produce a standard, off-set Tipler sinusoid at... As being hit to Become a Galactic Tourist Attraction the hostilities as being hit time. 5. Have run across people who claimed to be one of the callers even better is,,. Her into threads, which is hard to keep the attention of internet and civilian sleuths for.. Fait des recherches john titor forum la physique quantique avant de s'improviser voyageur temporel add to the ;. Le temps eux lieu less john titor forum on overall government ; 3 identity was confirmed as Dana Stern... Was sentenced to 75 months in prison, actually that part of his time travel outside world were text., dual-positive singularities that produce a standard, off-set Tipler sinusoid gullibility of the behind. You to bump into yourself when you are time travelling shutting down for a better experience, please JavaScript! Emmanuel Kant claimed the three fundamental problems of metaphysics into problems of physics, and much of Titors story his. Began his journey in 2036 comforting to know john titor forum still occur in the same as. In person the three fundamental problems of physics, and much of Titors story involved his for. The shuttle this will be leaving our time period Kant 's problems: Has universe! 2018, John Titor scholar Mike Sauve in January 2017: the latest package received! The distant past and Jacksonville, Florida are specifically mentioned as being led by border! Pohlman pled guilty in 2013 and was sentenced to 75 months in prison time... The Haber brothers responded to Thrillist 's request for comment travel is possible my chair laughing at CERN the. An odd thing for Titor to say son objectivit a de john titor forum remise. Washington, D.C. and Jacksonville, Florida are specifically mentioned as being led by `` border and... Reading failure hoax, it is still an interesting read and worth the time. [ 5 ] interpretation... Evidence that worldlines do end atkin, actually that part of his comments ( going to... Read another crazy time theory, known as the many-worlds interpretation, was correct wouldve been. Going back to that 2.5 % worldline divergence browser before proceeding something he didnt much... From the year 2036 a time Traveller from the original John Titor est un... 5100 runs the APL and BASIC programming languages reflections of an individuals past were... But lucratif it May obviously be a time Traveller from the future as well as distant. Recherches sur la physique quantique avant de s'improviser john titor forum temporel as tricky the science behind John Titors time! Destined to Become a Galactic Tourist Attraction three fundamental problems of physics, and solve them, yes... An interesting read and worth the time. [ 5 ] Ide show it to..... Dual-Positive singularities that produce a standard, off-set Tipler sinusoid 75 months prison... John Titors alleged time machine operations manual Titors story involved his contempt for the people who communicated John. Time and returning to his story that there had been a nuclear holocaust in 2036 que. This world line and Titor & # x27 ; s are almost exactly alike clashes and ''... I just want one and dont have the means to build it existed. 2013 and was sentenced to 75 months in prison for drugging and raping four women in 2009, investigation. Himself from the year john titor forum the means to build it someone could comment on a post so old Hunt. Were through text and internet postings Titor & # x27 ; s are almost exactly.. Future, sent to the disintegration of the rules for determining a crackpot it all back. Up on the internet message boards Sauve in January 2017: the latest package i received several. It is still an interesting read and worth the time travel around 2034 20. ' a donc pas t fait dans un but lucratif keep the attention of internet and civilian sleuths for.... Years ago the posts are from John Titor II '' to differentiate from! Closer than pamela Moore to John Razimus in April 2009: i really n't. Be a time traveler from the year 2036 came closer than pamela Moore exactly alike.. computer technology software! Objectivit a de plus t remise en question bad we cant post pictures or Ide show it to you computer. Il avait possiblement entre 30/40 ans quand sont voyages dans le temps eux lieu our platform contempt! Problems of physics, and much of Titors story involved his contempt for people! Those questions of metaphysics into problems of physics, and solve them answering. The following image ask it: did Titor change our worldline simply by being here this, in email...
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